OOC: Episode discussion - The Dead S3E10

[gods_that_haunt_me]

Season finale. Oh my gods. This show. This show.

Cut for spoilery reactions after watching it twice.



- You see Ragnar, that's what you needed, to be dunked into a cold fucking river when you're sick as a dog.

- Okay I take it back WAAAAILING no seriously I am weeping. Every time he mentions Athelstan I start crying.

- Floki ain't gettin no love

- Soooo... is Rollo going to dance naked on the beach? Because I am down with that.

- Holy shit, the count has a fun dungeon.

- ONE LAST BOAT. CRYING AGAIN.

- Last words with the King. Lagertha. Oh fuck I am sobbing. UGLY SOBBING TIME.

- Floki don't be a sassy ass

- "I hate you, Ragnar Lothbrok. I love you with all my heart. Why do you tear me away from myself." OKAY I TAKE IT BACK CRYING SO HARD

- this is so sad i cant

- JESUS FUCKING VIKING

- THAT WAS HOT

- LOL THE EMPEROR FAINTED

- YOU SEE MY SON, THIS IS HOW YOU CONQUER PARIS

- SUCH MIND FUCKERY, RAGNAR

- Floki most likely volunteered to stay out of guilt

- Emperor Poopy Pants just sold his daughter out. WTG, Dad of the Year!

- Rich and important: 2 great tastes that taste great together

- "defend Paris against your brother" I SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING, ROLLO

- Rollo, Scandinavia's most eligible bachelor

- Charming girl.

- Look at his face! He's in love!

- omfg Floki don't go to Ragnar he's probably got a dagger and he's going to stab you in the face

- Ok so maybe not

- oh god WHAT MONTH IS TODAY, WHEN IS 2016, I NEED SEASON 4 RIGHT FUCKING NOW

Comments

[like_quicksilver]

God damn...

Their last words. Taken into account that Ragnar can hear them, it's a double wammy of 'confessions' and getting into Paris.

I had a feeling I knew Ragnar was going to pull something like that in the church-'the dead will conquer paris'. If Ragnar learned anything, it's that seer visions can be bent.

And yeah, he played them all pretty much. At no point do we see reason to believe he's not 'related to Odin'.

Floki...I feel sorry for him. He did do what he thought best (even if it did make me shout 'NO' at the screen), but if anything it only seemed to make Ragnar's devotion to Athelstan stronger. Even if he never said he killed Athelstan, his jealousy pretty much said it all, and given his feelings on the man, I don't think Ragnar had to put that much together.

I'm not going to lie..the encounter between Rollo and Gisla was a little sweet-she pretty much goes off on him for being pagan, and all he does is smile and try to say 'hello'. Keep in mind, this is the same guy that's point blank refused to learn to speak english even for political purposes.

What makes it is that even if he couldn't understand what she was saying, the manner and way of her speech could've been no clearer-but it probably just makes him more smitten.

That last scene...thinking about it, I don't know if Ragnar will kill Floki. He knows there are punishments worse then death and to have Floki live knowing that Ragnar's a christian (atleast baptized one)-imagine that's a worse punishment for him.

.

[gods_that_haunt_me]

I'll have more to say tomorrow for sure, but just wanted to mention now that in last week's episode discussion, I figured that IF Ragnar doesn't kill Floki, he could banish him to Iceland. Or Floki would be so consumed with guilt that he runs away and takes his ships to go discover Iceland. And tonight I just read part of an Icelandic saga in which the historical Floki who sailed to Iceland and named it actually HATED the place and came back to complain about it. Which seems to me like a very Floki thing to do, ahaha.

(I also found out that Floki in Old Norse means 'tuft of hair,' aside from 'outspoken/enterprising.' And I was like PERFECT NAME IS PERFECT)

(Also also Floki's battle cry before the siege of Paris comes directly from the Poetic Edda. I was reading that and came across similar sounding lines, and it was so cool and incredibly nerdy of me to recognize them.)

Okay, enough parenthetical thoughts for now.

[athelstanthescribe]

Immediate thoughts:

Ahahaha the look on Sinric's face when Gisla just kept going on and on saying uncomplimentary things about Rollo and he was trying to figure out how to translate them diplomatically.

Also, Ragnar actively not spilling blood (except the bishop's, and I feel that was a response to being told he'd go to hell). He even used having Gisla as a hostage to not have to kill the guards at the door - and Gisla's confusion when he let her go was priceless.

And yeah, I thought Ragnar was going to shiv Floki too. But like he said, he's a patient man.

(Also, I wonder if Rollo will end up marrying Gisla after all. See, Thorunn is missing/potentially dead since she ran off so that Aslaug would take baby Siggy, and whose name means 'bear'?)

[yakalskovich]

Yes, I noticed how bloodless and civilised that sack of Paris was -- no raping, killing or burning. Nothing like the sack of Winchester! Just as if Ragnar knew that he'd be in serious trouble with Athelstan if people had lost their lives over this...

Floki needs to go to Iceland, after all. We must have Iceland -- discovery is the end game for Viking history. As Greenland and Vinland failed, as Viking colonies, I would see Iceland itself as the end game (also because I went there and love the place to bits!!), but the History Channel is American, and for their America-centric audience, Vinland / L'Anse-aux-Meadows will be the end game.

[athelstanthescribe]

And and. Floki and Athelstan really should come to terms - if Floki can ever accept that Athelstan really does love Ragnar too.

[yakalskovich]

But Ragnar, unfortunately, loves Athelstan more, and Floki just as a friend...

[yakalskovich]

My reaction post while watching is here:

http://yakalskovich.dreamwidth.org/566205.html

[gods_that_haunt_me]

Okay: THE DUALITY OF FLOKI

I'm going to ramble here.

I've read Gustaf Skarsgard referring to Floki as being bipolar or manic depressive. And I think he is, as he often goes from one end of the spectrum to the other within the same breath. For example, thinking 'my boats are awesome and the gods love my boats', to 'oh crap the gods hate me and my boats and I suck.' We've seen it with Helga and when she told him she was pregnant ('I'll be THE WORST DAD EVER' to 'I can't wait to be a dad!'). And his comments about being too happy, and Helga being too good to him.

So this duality goes unchecked when he gets stressed out or emotional. See: the deathboat confessional.

"I hate you, Ragnar Lothbrok! And I love you with all my heart. Why do you turn me away from myself?"

Floki's mindset is all there, in these three sentences. Super negative --> super positive. Anger --> grief. An admittance of having two sides that are at war with each other, with Ragnar in the middle.

As for what kind of love it is? I couldn't really say for sure because Floki himself would be confused. Maybe this duality also affected who he cared about the most. As in, his sexuality might not be so rigid.

I think he really does love Ragnar as his oldest friend (I would love to know about their history together) and has always been unconditionally loyal to him. Ragnar was always the cool kid, and Floki was always the weirdo, but Ragnar was his friend anyway. He saw past his eccentricities and appreciated his skills. So it's like Floki was a given, a fixed point in Ragnar's life. ...Until Athelstan. And yes, that is pure jealousy that he feels. Just angry, bitter, irrational jealousy, because he thinks Ragnar broke something between them and he doesn't understand why he can't see that. A kind of petty "you keep hanging out with him instead of me" mentality. And Floki keeps doing things that he thinks will fix their friendship, but he keeps fucking things up, which just makes things worse between them. It's all out of desperation, and wanting to be wanted by Ragnar again. Athelstan was a disruption, and Floki couldn't mentally cope with that.

[athelstanthescribe]

...somewhere in my head, there is a wee tiny voice that is not Athelstan, suggesting that if Ragnar would be up for it, there is one way to solve this...

More seriously, Athelstan and Floki really do have some big points in common. The unconditional love for and loyalty to Ragnar, Ragnar personally (because Athelstan has no such unshakable loyalty to the Norsemen or their gods, it's all Ragnar - and to a point Lagertha - and by extension the Ragnarssons) being one of them. Feeling like outsiders for their different reasons being another.

[bjornwilde]

HOLY SHIT GUYS!!!!

OK, I'm afraid I knew Ragnar was punking everyone with the death bit because I saw the end of the show last night, before I saw the rest of it, but it was still so well done!

Charles swooning! *cackling*

Rollo and the princess! You know he was thinking, "She is so fierce!", when she was going off on her tirade at the end. He's in love.

I do hope Ragnar and Rollo don't end up having to fight again next season. I swear, Rollo is fated to fight his brother or something. At least he definitely has land and a title this time.

Also, fun thing I realized last night, despite all the wiki reading I've been doing about Rollo, I am actually related to him by a thin branch of my family!

[gods_that_haunt_me]

Rollo totally had hearts in his eyes while she was calling him a soulless murdering beast that made her want to vomit.

His life choices, though. Sigh.

That is so awesome about your Viking lineage!

[athelstanthescribe]

To hijack the post for a moment - we are drawing ever closer to Eye for an Eye, which means I get to do really horrible things to poor Athelstan here and have him come into bar - well, about an inch away from dying.

Now. It seems in canon like only Ragnar (maaaybe Lagertha) really knows what he went through in England. So the question is, would you like Floki and Rollo to see him in his worst physical shape in the aftermath, or not?

(What I'm really asking, I think, is if they knew he was tortured and even then didn't betray them, would that change things from canon in ways you don't want them to change?)

[gods_that_haunt_me]

Good point. I most likely wouldn't tag Floki in on that moment, because he's not going to be helpful anyway, without going OOC. Maybe later on, if Athelstan has progressed to just wearing bandages on his hands or something. We'll see!

[my_brothers_shadow]

I think I would be okay with it. I can't see it changing Rollo's view on Athelstan. I think if Rollo sees him as a danger, it's to how Vikings live rather than to the Gods. Then again, I don't think Rollo is that devote of a person.

I also would be open to some Rollo/Athelstan dialog since Rollo seems to gain a lot of wisdom in season 3 which events in season 2 don't quite support. At least if my memory serves.

To see what I am talking about, look to Rollo and Bjorn's talks in England.

[gods_that_haunt_me]

Hijacking my own post!

What does everybody think about setting up a Vikings-Milliways comm? (vikings_ways, or maybe valhalla_ways, lol) If we're going to be heading into Season 2, we'll need to be on the same page with each other.

[athelstanthescribe]

In favour!

[my_brothers_shadow]

Definitely in favor!

[yakalskovich]

Yes totally!! We have our spreadsheet, but we might want to talk at greater length.

[gods_that_haunt_me]

I didn't know that I needed to see this until now.

[my_brothers_shadow]

HEHEHEHEHEH.

Wait, is that Siggy or Helga on the left?

[athelstanthescribe]

Clive Standen's hair is a thing of epic beauty.

[like_quicksilver]

I think it's well established about adork-able George is. I mean in a lot of interviews everyone says how much of a goof he really is.

Hahahah..Travis is giving him a noogie.

[yakalskovich]

Hijacking this post, too: I mean to EP Ragnar this weekend, coming in from after his last OOM, that is, after he learned about Gyda's death, and definitely between seasons 1 and 2 now.

Does that interfere with anybody's plans, or may I go ahead?

[like_quicksilver]

Doesn't interfere.

of course, this makes me feel extra bad for 'hiding' Gyda, but Milliways is a big place so I can easily figure she and Ragnar are never at the bar at the same time.

[gods_that_haunt_me]

I'm fine with it!

I'll have to do something with Floki as well soon enough re: Gyda's death.