episode discussion - S3E8: To the Gates!

[gods_that_haunt_me]

I had meant to do this for last week's episode because I had SO MANY THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS about that one, but now I think we can take a better look at the events of last week's and tie them into the results of this week's. That being said, I need so much emotional support you guys, omfg.



So basically I'm going to ramble on about Floki since he's officially my pup (I'm like :D and then I'm like DDDDD:), but everyone feel free to share your thoughts about your own or any other characters or whatever!

Okay. Let me first say something about Ragnar's face in these opening scenes. His face is the realest face, I love it so much. He hides just as much as he reveals. That lip-nibble -- uncertainty? a feeling of dread? He turns his head and then his eyes are like ice. Cold and determined. Travis Fimmel, you have the best face, no lie.

In last week's episode, he set Floki up to fail. Or to die. Whichever came first. I was sure Floki was going to die tonight, but no, he needs to suffer first -- and thus he did, physically and mentally. He showed his cowardice by hiding in the tower, and Ragnar saw that. So if the fire wasn't going to get him, Ragnar eventually will. (And here I allude to the end scene, where Ragnar describes himself as a patient man.)

As for the siege, those floating towers seemed like a great idea at the time! They could have done with more cover, like the vikings should've climbed through them instead of over them so at least they wouldn't get picked off so easily. But the boiling oil, man. Holy shit.

What was with Rollo and the French princess? Also, go you, French princess, with your shouty rallying speech.

Now, FLOKI. Goddamn. Okay, so when he's in the burning tower, he calls on Athelstan and blames him for this epic fail. He says it's his curse. That Ragnar trusted him too much, and now look what it's cost them. Floki nearly slits his own throat, but something, some other voice tells him not to. And then he says he'll die by fire. But he doesn't.

And the next thing we see he's up to his chin in still water. Is he going to drown himself? Helga comes over and basically she's had enough of him. She tells him not everything is about him, but he insists that everyone else is who he's always been thinking of. That everything he does (for the gods) is for the benefit of other people.

AND THEN HE CRIES WHEN SHE LEAVES HIM.

Where are your gods now, Floki?

Ragnar and his 'conversation' with Athelstan. I admit, I made some ugly noises throughout the episode (half-wailing, half-screeching, half-Lucille Ball-esque bawling), but then Ragnar goes to talk to Athelstan and I'm back to weeping. At least until he talks about Floki's fate. And I am actually very much looking forward to this.

Oh! Before I forget, did anyone else think that the siege felt a lot like the Battle of Helm's Deep in The Two Towers? Right down to the viking/orc who had to run the rope out to the horses/get the explosives to the drain? So many parallels! Even the floating towers and ladders! I was waiting for Gandalf to show up.

ANYWAY.

YOUR THOUGHTS, THROW THEM AT ME.

eta: Rewatching the episode right now. I'm reminded that when Lagertha's group breaks through the gates and there's nobody there, I totally yelled out, "It's a trap!"

Comments

[onceaviking]

As a complete aside, I need to start watching this, don't I?

[gods_that_haunt_me]

YES. I thought you had been watching?

[onceaviking]

Only the first episode.
Our series watching is somewhat erratic :)

[yakalskovich]

You really, really, really, REALLY need to watch this!!

[gods_that_haunt_me]

It is indeed like a soap opera, with bloody axe battles in!

[my_brothers_shadow]

Damn, I sort of knew there were bits where it was going to look like someone was going to die but I did not expect Rollo, Ragnar, Bjorn, and Floki to be the suspects!

And seriously Ragnar, is it really wise to risk so many of your people for your machinations against Floki?

I do believe the thing with Rollo and the princess is a direct callout to the seer's prophecy. As well, the historical Rollo ends up the first Viking ruler of Normandy, so that's my guess as to what that was. Her reaction was interesting.

ETA: Also, as much as it sucked for our raiding Northmen, it was nice to see them get bloodied. I am very much looking forward to their retaliation next week.

And I am seriously side-eyeing at Lagertha. Didn't we have a Lagertha for bit? Is she still around?

[gods_that_haunt_me]

It was one big death fake-out after another, haha. Thanks, Vikings, for the multiple heart attacks. Enjoy your unconscious swim, Rollo?

For a while it looked like the "bear" and the "princess" was Bjorn (which means bear) and Horik's widow (his son is a weaselly twerp, btw). Now it could totally be Rollo and the French princess. Was that a look of horrified admiration she had as she watched him fight? OOH LA LA.

"Do you think I went too far with Floki?" When Ragnar asked that, it was like hearing his darkest, ugliest secret, just to hear him admit that. And the thing is, I don't think Athelstan would have wanted Ragnar to exact revenge on his behalf. He pretty much forgave Floki even as he got the axe.

And yes...the Vikings are not indestructible. It was a massacre. Makes me wonder exactly how many warriors are left over and if they're enough to conquer the city (but this is TV, so of course there'll be).

Lagertha. Lady. What are you dooooing. Okay, so Kalf saved her life in the Corridor of Doom. But he also took her land. I think she may just be playing up to him to get what she wants. Just that I can't stand Kalf, ugh.

And oh yeah! We did have a Lagertha. But I had checked the cast list when it was last functioning, and the name wasn't on there anymore. Huh.

[my_brothers_shadow]

Too bad we no longer have Lagertha. =(

And yeah, I think she is setting him up. Or at least I hope she is and the writers aren't just making sure sexy times are still part of the show. :\

ETA: Also it looks like I need to look into historical berserkers. I suspected I did with that opening battle in Brothers War but it's a definite now.

[gods_that_haunt_me]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker

Ohh, I get it now. I always wondered why Rollo and other warriors never wore armor yet nothing ever happened to them. (Well. Except for that one guy next to him wearing the wolf pelt, who got an arrow in the shoulder and laughed, and then got an arrow in the head and then died.)

[athelstanthescribe]

I think the Lagertha/Kalf thing was mostly "I'm still going to kill you, and if you're okay with that condition, I need to have sex with somebody and you're here and willing, you'll do."

[my_brothers_shadow]

True enough. I keep having to remind myself these characters live by a different moral code and societal expectations.

[yakalskovich]

Now I'm so scared for Ragnar with his internal bleeding and all that. Getting everybody to safety and then coughing blood because something is broken in there!!

Well, scared. He is going to die eventually, but it will have to be in England, as that will be the reason for his sons to bring the Great Heathen Army against Alfred the Great (who in this is Athelstan's son, so all the augh here -- my Little Lady is right in calling this a soap opera).

We will have to do something with Ragnar's monologue / prayer to Athelstan at the end. It absolutely begs for an OOM. Because Kate and I already agreed that Athelstan will not want revenge, and Ragnar will let Floki die honourably if he has to take revenge after all...

[bjornwilde]

Would getting to there in time for Conversations with dead people be too rushed?

[yakalskovich]

We could aim for it -- no idea how fast we will move once we are off as a team.

[athelstanthescribe]

I won't be able to watch until Sunday when I'm back in England, so I braved the spoilers. ;) Looking forward to it!

[gods_that_haunt_me]

Oh, the anticip....pation!

The battle is brutal. I think Athelstan would be looking down from heaven, cringing and facepalming.

[athelstanthescribe]

Most likely!

Also, you're right to think he wouldn't want Ragnar to make Floki suffer. Maru and I actually have a pre-written thread where he a) refuses to tell Ragnar who killed him but b) accepts that he'll inevitably find out and then revenge will happen, but asks Ragnar to do it in a way that still gives Floki hope of Valhalla, because he's forgiven him.

[gods_that_haunt_me]

...I am such a terrible person for wanting Floki to die so he and Athelstan can meet in the Milliways afterlife.

[lt_blade]

You're not terrible. I'd pay to see that XD.

[athelstanthescribe]

Yeah you are, but so am I.

And really, it's looking more and more probable that canon will go that way.

[yakalskovich]

It is such a mess. Such! A! Mess!!

The went GoT, too, with the one episode with the big battle in one place, apart from tiny scenes in Kattegat.

[lt_blade]

..Holy crap, I think this show's trying to break with Game of Thrones on death teases.

I honestly feel kinda bad for Floki, like he's so involved with what he does and what he believes to be the will of the gods that I think he would react that way. On the other hand..the 180 to saying it was Athelstan's curse? Really, Floki?

Oh lord, Ragnar's 'conversation' with Athelstan. Part of me's glad that all of this trouble he still wants to conquer Paris (so it's not a total waste), but..wow, this guy does play soft when it comes to revenge.

[gods_that_haunt_me]

At the beginning of the season I actually thought it was going to go full GoT with character deaths.

I feel bad for Floki, too, of course! He was panicked. He just lost it. He blamed the gods, Athelstan, himself, because there has to be something to be blamed for this failure. I think that's the way he thinks. Everything has a cause, and it seemed as if everything was against him, and he didn't know why.

Ragnar likes the long way around, for some reason. If he can get something done (learn how NOT to invade Paris) while doing something else (possibly get Floki killed), he'll do it that way. That's so Ragnar.

[lt_blade]

No kidding...Torstein..Athelstan...Thorunn was close..

..I'm tempted to bring up the word 'karma', but that's too simple.

Ragnar's definitely one for 'revenge best served cold'. He's very much like Odin in that he never rushes into anything, but waits to see what else he could get out if it. Like he 'tells' Athelstan..he's a dangeriously patient man.

Though I'd imagine him coughing up blood would complicate things-he's still patient.

[yakalskovich]

Okay, I watched it now, and I have a few things to say:

• I'm going to make a spreadsheet. This is too much of a mess to keep distributed in the wetware and juggle as we go along. The spreadsheet will list season two and three, with columns for the episodes and rows for the characters, and space in-between for the OOMs we plan to do, where we can leave links when we have done them, so we will all have easy access to the way we as a group are messing with canon while canon is messing with us.
  
• All the 'ow' at the end!! Ragnar talking to Athelstan looking up at the night sky (heavens above and all that, of course he takes that literally) was so painful to watch; and at the end, HE IS SPITTING BLOOD! He's sustained internal injuries by his fall on that heap of corpses. Now I am very worried.
  
• We can OOM that conversation so he's actually talking to Athelstan in the forests in Milliways.
  
• Also, in the preview, there was a scene with Athelstan's face! Even though he's dead, it's all about him still.
  
• The French princess, though, is actual history if you ignore the pesky numbers and the way we casually jumped into the 10th century for a bit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisela_of_France
  
• As we're talking about and numbers all over the place, who wants this house: http://www.minjasafnreykjavikur.is/english/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-4206/

[bjornwilde]

It also looked like he was peeing blood in that scene with Bjorn. Kidney damage?

ETA: And now that I am not on a tablet any longer, I love your idea of a spreadsheet! I think I need to do it for Rollo's thoughts and motivations, since he seems to creep back into brother jealousy after Siggy's death.

I am thinking that next week I will bring Rollo in bar and I am assuming it will be during the time he is with Jarl Borg and Ragnar has gone off to see the giant ash tree?

[yakalskovich]

I saw that he was peeing on the furs, but didn't realise he actually peed blood. that means he'll have extensive internal damage. Eeeep!!

[bjornwilde]

Well, it just seemed dark to me and wasn't obviously red, which could be diet but given the timing...yeah.

I'm off to go work in the garden. BBL.

[yakalskovich]

Usually, we don't see them pee; so if we do see Ragnar pee, and it's red, that will of course mean something dire.

[gods_that_haunt_me]

A spreadsheet would be awesome. Should we be able to list EPs too? Just so we don't step on each other's toes when we post.

For instance I wanted to bring Floki into the bar either from Horik's place or Jarl Borg's, depending on what you have planned for Ragnar.

Oh, one thing about Athelstand that you reminded me of. In the previous episode, Ragnar tells Floki point blank that he misses Athelstan. Probably to get a reaction out of him. And then Floki says that he still carries his cross, so that he is still with him. Which, in any other circumstance, barring the fact that he murdered him, was a nice thing to say! lol

And that last link is really cool! I'm actually taking an online course on Coursera.org right now about the sagas and the medieval Scandinavians' perception of space and time. This might be useful.

[yakalskovich]

Oh yes, I'll put that in the spreadsheet -- good idea! Once we have actually posted stuff, we can add the links as well.

And yes, it was a nice thing to say -- on the other hand, Floki doesn't seem happy about it all. During the battle, he blames Athelstan for everything going wrong, even!

[gods_that_haunt_me]

Let's face it, anytime Athelstan is mentioned anywhere near Floki, he turns into a big giant sourpuss. Like when Athelstan and Ragnar were building sandcastles, I couldn't help imagining that Floki was thinking, "But WE used to build sandcastles! Why can't WE build sandcastles anymore!"

Because you're a sourpuss, Floki.

[yakalskovich]

He's terribly envious, poor Floki, and tries to justify it with religion. And now Athelstan's dead, he's still present between them all the time, his memory enshrined in Ragnar's mind, so to speak.

I made the spreadsheet and now need people's Google accounts to put them on there!